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Pedal on Parliament to be discussed... in Parliament

(114 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from cb

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  1. crowriver
    Member

    Does this mean we have to make POP Scotland an annual event?

    Not necessarily.

    There was a demo a few months back outside St Andrew's House. I can think of one person who was highly sceptical about the demo. Clearly that demo galvanised (some might say 'radicalised') people who attended, and a few are now involved in organising POP Scotland.

    If POP Scotland achieves some action from government, then depending upon whether that action is perceived to go far enough, there might be an appetite for further demos. Who knows? It might not be up to 'us'. Others might organise it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. wee folding bike
    Member

    Fine, same question for a wider audience. What will we do if a government says no?

    I ride a bike every day, have done since 1980 give or take, and I don't vote for parties based on their bike policy. If you can't get me on side then how many votes do you think are in this for anyone?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. crowriver
    Member

    Governments rarely say 'No'. Instead they trot out all the things that they are already doing, have done, and will do, to address the questioner's/protesters' demands. Or they pass the buck. Then they carry on with business as usual.

    Sometimes, if enough people give a damn, they change their position. Only sometimes.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. sallyhinch
    Member

    "You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement."

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. wee folding bike
    Member

    So, like a government, you dodged the "how many votes" thing.

    And you're in the mysterious east with higher reported levels of utility cycling. In the wild west few people can be bothered to ride a bike.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    I checked the Greens web page. They have four candidates in Lanarkshire, and they are all in the south of the county, so they don't seem to think there are many votes coming their way either.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "The new cycling priorities were initially not popular with the planners, and there was some resistance, but the politicians pushed for more cycling investment and over time this led to cycling becoming ‘mainstream’ within transport planning."

    UK politicians have mostly lost the nerve to do things that focus groups and 'popular' newspapers say would be unpopular.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "If you can't get me on side then how many votes do you think are in this for anyone?"

    You are already on side.

    This isn't about party politics.

    Which party wants to see more kids and grannies and voters killed on the roads - or killed by obesity related diseases?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. wee folding bike
    Member

    And the Lanarkshire Green manifesto has this:

    "Boost active travel, investing in infrastructure to help people walk, cycle and use other ways to travel that also improve health."

    And this:

    "Push for more space for local shops, food growing, bicycle storage and recycling
    facilities in new housing developments and refurbishments"

    A bit light on the specific costed commitments to cycling there so not very different from the others. Even if I was minded to vote based on cycling issues and if we did have a Green candidate within 15 miles this wee commitment wouldn't have me rushing to give them my support.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. wee folding bike
    Member

    Still waiting to hear what we will do when a government fobs you off.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. sallyhinch
    Member

    @wee folding bike - I think we have to keep protesting.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. wee folding bike
    Member

    Sally, might I refer you to the earlier Sun Tzu idea of leaving a way out for a government. There is limited pressure available form the cycling vote but if you leave them a path which they can claim is part of the carbon dioxide emission reductions then you might have something.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Sally, might I refer you to the earlier Sun Tzu idea of leaving a way out for a government. There is limited pressure available form the cycling vote but if you leave them a path which they can claim is part of the carbon dioxide emission reductions then you might have something."

    So rather than "What will you do when the government fobs you off?" the question is more "What will you do to stop the government fobbing you off?"

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "Still waiting to hear what we will do when a government fobs you off."

    It's not binary - 'meet all our demands at once or we've failed'

    "@wee folding bike - I think we have to keep protesting."

    I'm sure the people involved in PoP (and all the people coming on the ride) aren't expecting (or even wanting) a Government 'cave-in'. Also the "Manifesto" can change to allow for circumstances.

    The Motions in parliament show that things have already changed.

    SNP MSPs are keen to support PoP - they can't support the financial bits that aren't in their manifesto/budget and/or don't agree with.

    It's like poker or chess or negotiation. (I assume) PoP isn't rigid about the 10% spending figure.

    It's a headline, a goal, a talking point. If there were fewer cars there would be less need for more roads/repairs (though it's not cars that cause most of the damage/wear) so the '10% of transport budget for cycling' might be too much - or not enough - depending how the costings were done.

    Of course it's important not to ignore the fact that the Government isn't directly responsible for local path networks and things like the KB corridor.

    As wfb says "if you leave them a path which they can claim is part of the carbon dioxide emission reductions then you might have something".

    That's one area where it can be shown that more cycling is in line with existing Government aims/targets. Other areas could involve health or education.

    it really shouldn't be difficult to show how cycling could/would/should fit in with all of these - http://www.snp.org/vision

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. sallyhinch
    Member

    The 10% figure isn't ours by the way - it's from the Greens and it's for all active travel, not just cycling. In the manifesto we're asking for funding of around 5% of the transport budget nationally plus local funding up to a target of about £25 per head, which is equivalent to Dutch levels of investment.

    As to what happens after Pedal on Parliament, that will be a question of how much enthusiasm people have to keep the pressure on, keep holding the government to account and keep organising. Can't think beyond Saturday week right at the moment though!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. wee folding bike
    Member

    10% for active transport was the only mention of cycling I could find in the Green 2011 manifesto and I assume they also didn't really mean it either. They over played their hand against Mr Swinney's budget during the previous parliament and ended up with less than they could have had in the first place. Even had the numbers come out differently in May and the Greens potentially held the balance of power I would have to assume that Margo would have been in there too and, unlike in 2007, we now know that it is possible to run Hollyrood as a minority so the power of small groups is less than I would have expected it to be had you asked me 5 years ago.

    Interestingly the 2011 manifesto promoted active transport for economic and health reasons but not the environment. Economic reasons are a tricky one. If I'm not spending £50 a week on petrol for getting to work then I could be spending it on consumer hardware from China which will have to be made, transported here, use electricity while in operation and eventually end up in land fill near Cambuslang (well not for some time, I'm very pack rat).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "that will be a question of how much enthusiasm people have to keep the pressure on"

    I'm sure those currently involved will be exhausted, but I assume you will be asked for more people to do things to keep/build the momentum.

    This isn't just about making a point and hoping for some action. It's about changing the way things are done, working with 'new friends'- starting with those who have signed the Motions, and those who ride on the 28th - not everyone will bother/be able to come to Edinburgh.

    Clearly PoP is not about replacing Spokes or other groups - maybe PoP28 could inspire groups to form in council areas that don't have them(?)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. sallyhinch
    Member

    well, we'll definitely be trying to gather email addresses or contact details from anyone who shows up. That way we'll have a base for any future campaigns. CTC scotland are very strongly supportive of POP as well. Who knows what happens next!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. wee folding bike
    Member

    So in Airdrie that'll be me then.

    I did see a guy on a white Cannondale this afternoon. He had a black pizza disk on the back wheel which I found surprising.

    No other kids on bikes at the boys' school today. Even mine only do one day a week. I emailed Sustrans about Route 75 and the new primary school.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "So in Airdrie that'll be me then"

    Well if the jaunty Campag cap fits.

    (Other makes of advertising headwear are available.)

    Gang of one.

    You already have your first campaign - presume a few of your neighbours would like a 'safe route' to the local primary.

    Maybe the Head Teacher would too.

    You know the arguments - brighter, healthier children ready to learn when the bell goes.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. wee folding bike
    Member

    Wow, I haven't had a Campag branded hat since the early '80s and a good 8 years before I owned any Campag kit. Today it was the Lowe Alpine trail cap in the afternoon shower.

    I try to stay away from the primary head teacher. I did get a hello three weeks ago and a surprised look as I was wearing shorts and an olive green Tilley hat.

    I'll see what Sustrans say. I've seen cycle cops using a part of Route 75 but not the section between the school and where the pupils stay… North Lanarkshire managed to build a school which is actually outwith its own catchment area. I haven't seen anyone using the rest of the route between Coatbridge and Airdrie.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    " I haven't seen anyone using the rest of the route between Coatbridge and Airdrie"

    A pristine cycle path! Sounds like there needs to be a CCE 'study visit'.

    http://airdrie.cyclestreets.net/journey/1988957

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. wee folding bike
    Member

    Ahhhh… there is no evidence of cycling but there is usually some evidence of a well known tonic wine which the local yeomanry like to consume under the bridges.

    Marathon Plus tyres are a wise choice for anyone using the track.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. crowriver
    Member

    A pristine cycle path! Sounds like there needs to be a CCE 'study visit'.

    I believe Kaputnik of this parish may have traversed the Glasgow-Edinburgh path via Airdrie. If I recall, lots of glass, the odd burnt out car shell, and post-industrial wasteland were the highlights of the western experience. Historical and ethnographic interest, certainly,

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. cc
    Member

    @wee folding bike

    We just keep on campaigning until it works.

    "It took them a decade, before not only decision makers, but also the planners finally listened to the protests."

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. Dave
    Member

    Interesting:

    "the following question remains tantalisingly unanswered: how do we get politicians and planners to take cycling as transport seriously? If you look closely at the photos of the Amsterdam and Blackfriars protest rides you’ll see the root of the problem. In the picture from the Amsterdam ride of 1979 there are people of all ages, and everyone is wearing normal clothes. By comparison, the photo from last month’s Blackfriars flashride shows a sea of bright yellow and tight black lycra. I was on the flashride and whilst it was a truly amazing experience to be in the midst of so many cyclists, what really struck home was the image of the typical cyclist: young, fit, enthusiastic and wearing specialist clothing. In other words, crying out to singled-out as the other, the hated “cyclist”."

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. SRD
    Moderator

    let's see what the POP pictures look like - I wager something more like amsterdam!

    And, on that note, have you all put a handlebar flyer on every bike in your work bike store/bikeracks?

    Pls let me know if you need help printing out doublesided handlebar flyers or want copies of glossy leaflets to distribute.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. wingpig
    Member

    Just in the interests of fairness, were lycra tights and high-visibility tabards readily available in Amsterdam in 1979?

    The St. Andrew's House thing in January had a fair few people in readily-identifiable-as-cyclist gear, but it was at lunchtime on a schoolday.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. Min
    Member

    YAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. SRD
    Moderator

    Min - does that mean you've just finished all your handlebar flyering? time for a nap :)

    Posted 12 years ago #

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