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"actively discourage cyclists from shopping at Sainsburys"

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    An objection to a planning application from the CTC

    "
    We object to this planning application on the grounds that there is, as far as we can see from the plans, no provision whatsoever for cyclists.

    Ideally, the access road would have coloured cycle lanes in both directions, an advance stop line (coloured) at the junction, and signage to the location of the cycle parking.

    However, this application brings up the issue of the access to Sainsburys from what might be regarded as the main cycle route to the store, the one from the Telford Path and (South) Groathill Ave., which is unsatisfactory in a number of ways:

    1 Coming from Telford Path, the store is signed at the path itself, along a spur, but there is no further signage. (Years ago, the access to Craigleith was directly opposite the exit of the spur, therefore fairly obvious. Now, that access is closed, and the route requires turning right (south) from the path exit, then left)

    2 The path exit is obstructed by an unnecessarily tight barrier (think cyclists laden with shopping, pedestrians with buggies, etc) and THERE IS NO DROPPED KERB onto the street.

    3 The entrance to Craigleith from S. Groathill Ave is via an obscure, unsigned path through a small play-park, which is then obstructed by a square of small separated blocks designed to stop trolleys, but which also stop any other form of wheels.

    4 There is no obvious on-ground provision for cyclists or pedestrians to cross the car park to access the store and its cycle parking - and no signage either.

    5 For all the above reasons, the access from the Telford Path is also non-DDA compliant.

    Although this access is strictly beyond the terms of reference of the current application, we feel Sainsburys should be working with the Council to address these issues, which have been a long-standing source of complaint from our members, and which actively discourage cyclists from shopping at Sainsburys.

    Yours etc,

    Peter Hawkins
    CTC Lothians

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. SRD
    Moderator

    Ironically, the September Sainsbury's magazine has a fairly sensible article on cycling, with a lot of good tips (eg they direct people to cyclestreets), some nice kit, and profiles of three female cyclists -- a mountain biker (with two small kids), a commuter, and another mum who mostly cycles with her kids to school, shopping etc.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. LaidBack
    Member

    All true...

    William Low's old flagship store at Broughton showed how it should be done 20 years ago (I think).
    Tescos then bought them over and didn't make it any more awkward for bikes users AFAIK.

    The result; bikes laden with groceries aren't that unusual on paths around there. Of course the number of parking spaces also has an effect.
    The supermarkets do though like car borne shoppers because they spend more by filling up the car with petrol too. Ideal ratio for them would be 100 cars for every one bike which is round about what it is at moment I reckon (I'd love to be wrong). Any higher than that and their principles* would get in the way!

    The real argument is that there can be many types of shopper. Lightweight = on foot. Middleweight = on bike. Heavyweight = car or bike with trailer. Superheavyweight= 4x4.
    'Every little bit helps' as car parking is finite!

    *To make as much profit as possible whilst serving a goodly weight of plastic and packing with too much of what they sell.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. wee folding bike
    Member

    I complained to Tesco last week about the lack of cycle parking at their big store in Coatbridge. They admit that there is none but say it's up to the local area manager to decide on these things.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I might be wrong but Tesco "extra" (extra what I don't know, think it might be extra teenagers outside) at Corstorphine has no bike racks whatsoever. But I've never been told off for locking my bike to the bumper rail in the lobby.

    And the one up at Edinburgh park has the racks conveniently hidden behind the ATM bunker at the end of the car park where noone can see the local neds trying to jemmy the lock.

    Anyone ever been stopped for taking their bike with them into the store? Safest place for it I think.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    They suggested using that rail.

    I take a Brompton in all the time, sometimes I even dump it in a trolley. They never say anything about it.

    The Extra in Baillieston has been there about a year and has a nice covered rack at the side. I've never seen any bikes in it. It doesn't sell ground coffee so I don't use that shop.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. smsm1
    Member

    The big Tesco in Corstorphine used to have cycle parking 2.5 years ago as I used to used it regularly. If your looking at the store, it's off to the right beside the windows for the checkouts. It's not sign posted, nor as big as it should be.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. wee folding bike
    Member

    Eeek, it's a Tesco Express. I checked this morning.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. smsm1
    Member

    Uh? The one that I was talking about is this one: http://osm.org/go/evfI1RubF--

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    The few occasions I've used the Tesco at Edinburgh Park, I locked my bike to the hefty handrail outside. Everyone else seemed to.

    I know the big B&Q has cycle stands, but I wasn't aware of any others. I once took my big recumbent bike into Halfords because there seemed to be nowhere to lock it (other than B&Q, or across the road at Edinburgh Park Station).

    • The Waitrose in Morningside had the same rough-and-ready cycle stand when it was Safeway.
    • The Morrisons at Hunters Tryst has three or four Sheffield stands which are fine, but hidden behind trees if you're in the shop.
    • Tesco at Colinton Mains has about ten Sheffield stands, in view of some of the checkouts.
    • And Sainsbury's/Cameron Toll - which I tend to visit the most, and out of preference to not shopping at Tesco - has four or five Sheffield stands that are covered and in view of shoppers and motorists, but not visible from inside the shop.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    New Sainsburys at Gorgie has Sheffeild Stands - Broughton WMLow/Tesco has covered area but often crammed- oxgangs/CM one quite spacious I recall?. No idea about the new Sainsburys at Murrayfield tho. :-)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. LaidBack
    Member

    Broughton WMLow/Tesco has covered area but often crammed-

    Not 'alf. Irene and I passed by today and it was a real bike jam.

    So Tescos limit bike use by not providing enough spaces. 'Every little bike helps'.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "So Tescos limit bike use by not providing enough spaces."

    AND failing to take advantage of the opening of the Rodney Street Tunnel.

    Anyone on here had (positive) dealings with Tesco?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    I once pointed out that the Sheffield Stands under the canopy at Broughton street branch appeared to be coming loose from the ground and they screwed them back in. They once charged me 70p for coffee worth £2.70. I bought quite a lot of that and so did my colleagues at work.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    70p for coffee worth £2.70

    Worth £2.70? Or on sale for £2.70?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    yeah the value of the labour may have been £2.70 but that was not specified on the packet. However, sale price should have been £2.70

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Mr Hawkins,
     
    Thank you for your comment.
     
    The following is a response to your objection to Planning Application 10/02342/FUL from Lynn Russell (Professional Officer) (Transport).
     
     
    Coming from Telford Path, the store is signed at the path itself, along a spur, but there is no further signage. (Years ago, the access to Craigleith was directly opposite the exit of the spur, therefore fairly obvious. Now, that access is closed, and the route requires turning right (south) from the path exit, then left)
    This is outwith the scope of the current application however I can advise you that the council are, using other section 75 monies, currently designing a toucan crossing to link in with the  Telford cycle path.  The cycle path to the store will also be widened (see 3 below). I understand that it is intended that this work will be put to tender with a view to construction in the in spring/summer 2011. However please contact Chris Brace for confirmation on this.  

     

    The path exit is obstructed by an unnecessarily tight barrier (think cyclists laden with shopping, pedestrians with buggies, etc) and THERE IS NO DROPPED KERB onto the street.
     This will be addressed in the detailed designed to the crossing 

     

    The entrance to Craigleith from S Groathill Ave is via an obscure, unsigned path through a small play-park, which is then obstructed by a square of small separated blocks designed to stop trolleys, but which also stop any other form of wheels.
    The path has been/is being widened from 2m to 3m. The barrier is being removed as part of the section 16 works in relation to the extension of the store. A cycleway sign will be erected at the entrance to the cycleway on South Groathill Avenue , this will be looked at again as part of the design for the crossing. The rumble strip (small separated blocks) will remain as we don’t want to encourage cyclists using the 2m footpath, a drop kerb will be introduced prior to the rumble strip to allow cyclist to enter the carriageway into the park.

     

    There is no obvious on-ground provision for cyclists or pedestrians to cross the car park to access the store and its cycle parking – and no signage either.
    This is outwith the scope of the current application however, also there is the added issue that the road that runs between the retail site and the Sainsbury’s site is in fact owned by the retail site therefore all individual units would have to be consulted and agree before any works could be carried out on this road.

    There is an existing crossing point outside the KFC and one directly adjacent to the proposed cycle parking area (opposite the exiting bus stop).  There is a new pedestrian route across the car park.  Cyclists are able to use the retail park internal roads to access the cycle parking.

     

    For all the above reasons, the access from the Telford Path is also non-DDA compliant.
    Although some of the points being addressed above are outwith the scope of this application, the developer was happy to include the works to provide better provision for pedestrians and cyclists.   

     
    Kind Regards

    Lee Crawford

     
    Lee Crawford | Planning Officer | Local Developments - East | Development Management | Planning | City Development | City of Edinburgh Council

    "

    Well done Peter.

    Persistence pays...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. Arellcat
    Moderator

    And the one up at Edinburgh park has the racks conveniently hidden behind the ATM bunker at the end of the car park where noone can see the local neds trying to jemmy the lock.

    I was there today (mainly for cycle surveillance than minor shopping, which I singularly failed to obtain), and there are only three Sheffield stands. They're not exactly hidden, but they are well away from the main entrance and for that reason you could quite easily miss them because most shoppers will have come from the other direction. The stands at B&Q, all of a minute's walk across the car park, are much better.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. RJ
    Member

    Oh yes - can I second chdot's "Well done, Peter." That looks like an object (ho-ho) lesson in squeezing planning gain from a developer and the council by responding in detail to a planning application. Top marks!

    Posted 13 years ago #

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